Scaling Therapist Podcast Tepmlate
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[00:00:04] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: I think that like, that self-defined path is the best measure of success because to your point, you know, we're, we're, we're always in flux.
[00:00:12] We're always gonna be changing. There's always new. You know, new, new things that will rise that will make us wanna shift into, into something new. And so defining success for ourselves, I think is the, is the secret. This is the placeholder for the ad read of the show set up. Select this clip and record a new segment to replace it.
[00:00:38] James Marland, MBA: right. Welcome back to the Scaling Therapy Practice. This is your host, James Marlin. This is the show where we help you, help you put your mission in motion. I'm very pleased to have a special guest here today, Michael Dietrich Chastain. He's the and CEO of Arc Integrated. And man, I met him at a conference. [00:01:00] It was the Wise Practice Summit, uh, in Georgia, and that was 2024. And man, he, his presentation style and his view on leadership and all this content like this, this guy showed up with, uh, all this content and he's like, this is too much content for you guys. Pick one topic and I'll go deep dive on that. So he dived deep on one, one topic and there was like four more to go like, wait, wait, there's more here. And so, uh, so I, I just stayed in touch with him and asked him to be on the show. And, uh, it's been several months because he had a, a pretty big, um, the, the, flooding in North Carolina.
[00:01:43] Like, well, he, maybe he can tell a little bit about that, but it, it, it was really a big impact. So we finally hooked up together and we're gonna talk today about change and change management and like the process of change and. Um, I'm really excited to, for him to be on the show. We're gonna learn a lot.
[00:01:59] Michael, [00:02:00] welcome to the show.
[00:02:02] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, it's great to be here with you. Great to have been able to stay in touch after our connection in the fall and yeah, thanks for having me.
[00:02:10] James Marland, MBA: So, uh, to, just to get us up to speed before we start talking about change and change management. Uh. Maybe tell us a little bit about what's going on with you recently. Maybe, you know, talk just about like where your family is and the flood that you had, but also more, you know, more for the audience. You, you started your own business.
[00:02:29] You're the CEO of your company. That, that must have been a big, uh, you, you had to step out and get outta your comfort zone to do that.
[00:02:37] So Mm-hmm. start with, uh, updating us on, on your life here?
[00:02:42] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Sure. Yeah. Thank, thank you, James. Well, yeah, thanks for asking about the flood, uh, Asheville, North Carolina and we, all of Western North Carolina got hit, um, real bad as many folks know, uh, from Hurricane Helene and, um, yeah, we're, there's still many parts of the city they're in, in recovery and will be for the next couple years probably.
[00:02:58] I. [00:03:00] Thankfully we, my family and I evacuated and were able to come back and our house took on limited damage. We've since been able to repair it and we, compared to many others, are very, very fortunate. And so, um, yeah, my heart, my heart goes out to so many families and, and small communities here in Western North Carolina.
[00:03:17] Um. You know, I, I will say this, one of the things in watching this whole process is the amount of, uh, humanity that came forward. And this is an interesting connection to change as well. You know, when, when there is a crisis or there's, you know, some kind of disaster that happens, which I've never seen firsthand as far as being involved in a natural disaster, but what I saw happen in our community.
[00:03:41] It's just this rallying of how can we be supportive? What are creative ways we can bring resources to one another? How can you know, how can we help our neighbors or our, your strangers in front of us get the supplies that they need or the resources that they're, that they're desperately searching for?
[00:03:56] And so I just saw all of this kind of uplifting [00:04:00] spirit come forward that I, that I hope is a representation of what happens in, in many disasters. And so that was, that was definitely a silver lining.
[00:04:10] James Marland, MBA: Yeah. Um, uh, I've never, I've never experienced anything like that. You said they were, some parts of the city were out of the, out of water for 6, 7, 8 weeks.
[00:04:23] Um, Yep.
[00:04:25] Things just removed. And it's nice in, in the world where you hear a lot of bad news, and I know that natural DA disaster is bad news.
[00:04:33] It's also refreshing to know that peop there's, there's people out there who will help other people
[00:04:39] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah.
[00:04:41] James Marland, MBA: and, and help with that.
[00:04:43] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. All Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. To see for sure. Yeah.
[00:04:47] James Marland, MBA: Uh, rough transition. Okay,
[00:04:49] here Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:52] Not very smooth.
[00:04:53] Um, so you, you own your own company
[00:04:57] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah.
[00:04:57] James Marland, MBA: CCEO of the company, and you had a [00:05:00] life before that company and you had to make a decision. You know, what, which way am I gonna go? Am I gonna
[00:05:05] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah.
[00:05:06] James Marland, MBA: you know, work for a paycheck or, work for somebody else? Or start, start something new? So. A lot of our audience, um, is probably thinking about starting new. Can you just walk us through briefly, you know, what was that decision like for you and how did you, uh, how did you make the leap
[00:05:25] from Mm-hmm.
[00:05:25] from the comfort zone to something really unknown?
[00:05:28] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you just a little background. Uh, you know, very briefly, kind of the 20 year snapshot, uh, which is when I was in undergrad, I had a strong interest in industrial organizational psychology, which is essentially the work that we do at ARC Integrated today. And so out of school, I, I emphasized that in my study.
[00:05:46] And then outta school, got a, got a job in a, in the corporate world, uh, doing, doing basically, ironically, looking back on it, it wasn't called this then, but it was absolutely leadership coaching. Uh, we were, we had companies as our clients, and I. [00:06:00] My job was to help staff those companies with employees and then manage the challenges that the internal leaders were having with employees we were staffing the companies with.
[00:06:09] And so it was a lot of, you know, conflict resolution and communication management and, and leadership coaching. Um, so it was a great exposure to the business world. Um, after that, it kind of inspired me to take a deeper dive into human development. And so I, instead of getting a master's or PhD in industrial organizational psych.
[00:06:26] I went on to get a master's in counseling and then eventually a license as a therapist and lived in the mental health world for about a decade, doing everything from, you know, crisis work to community, mental health to private practice, to leading teams of therapists. Um, and it was, it was awesome, wonderful, wonderful experience.
[00:06:44] I learned a ton, uh, still had this interest in, you know, teams and leadership and, and company culture. And so the, the bridge that I made. Back into that world was through the EAP industry. And I, I got a job for an [00:07:00] EAP company and it was really interesting, kind of a hybrid role. 'cause part of my job, James, at that time was to consult with leaders of companies, which were our clients around mental health challenges they were seeing in employees.
[00:07:13] And so it was like a clinical consultative role. And then the other half of my job was traveling the country, doing trainings for the companies that were our clients on things like. Team development and communication and mental health in the workplace and stress management. And it was really that experience that gave me the, the enthusiasm of wanting to go do my own thing.
[00:07:33] And so after that, I, I launched into kind of the world of entrepreneurship. And I will say, I mean to, to your point about like the risk and the. And the, the, the scariness of it all. I'm not sure today if I would take that same leap. So maybe, maybe there was a bit of like naivety that, that helped push me forward.
[00:07:55] Uh, 'cause it really was a challenge like those first few years. Um, you know, I was [00:08:00] doing, I was trying to figure out how to launch my own thing. I was also doing contract work for other consultancies. Which, you know, I still do a little bit of today, which has been, you know, a, a wonderful kind of saving grace.
[00:08:11] 'cause that, that work, especially early on, um, allowed me a lot of exposure to, uh, ways of working with leaders and teams that I had not, you know, yet, yet, uh, discovered. And so it was like I was, I was almost getting like a paid education around how to, how to get better as a leadership and, and cultural consultant.
[00:08:31] So I'll, I'll pause there. That's kind of, that's kind of the brief story. We launched ARC integrated in 2017 and have been, uh, you know, doing, doing great work since then. And so, I'll, I'll pause for a second.
[00:08:41] James Marland, MBA: Did, did you? Did you like the travel? Is
[00:08:44] that I, I did,
[00:08:46] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: I did. And you know, I,
[00:08:47] James Marland, MBA: Yeah.
[00:08:48] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: I, I loved it and I, I, um, I. I have, I have loved it even still up until recently. And so the big kind of new change that I'm in today is we had [00:09:00] our first baby, uh, last year. She actually turns one, uh, in this week. She turns one, congratulations. It's
[00:09:07] James Marland, MBA: really oh, thank you.
[00:09:08] leave the home when there's a baby there,
[00:09:10] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: It is. It is. And that's been the big transition, James.
[00:09:13] It's like now I'm in a position where I'm trying to figure out how to travel less. 'cause I'm on the road a lot so that I can be with my family more. And I'm, so, I'm now that now the puzzle is like trying to figure out how to continue to deliver more work to our team so that they can go out and, and support our clients.
[00:09:30] And so that's the, that's currently what's going on.
[00:09:32] James Marland, MBA: Donald Miller's new book, coach Builder. I
[00:09:34] don't know Oh yeah.
[00:09:35] it.
[00:09:36] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: He's great.
[00:09:38] James Marland, MBA: he, uh, one of, in one of his chapters, he's like, oh, we got this new baby. I, my wife's like, we gotta stay at home,
[00:09:45] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Uh huh.
[00:09:46] James Marland, MBA: you know, and he wanted to stay at home. So he is like, what, what can I do? And still earn the same amount of money.
[00:09:51] So he like, what he did was, he like, doubled his rates or something and he's like,
[00:09:54] this'll Yeah.
[00:09:56] you know, still some people will still want me to. [00:10:00] Coach or, you know, come be their, their keynote speaker. And then even if the, the, the amount goes down, I'll still be earning the same money. And what, what actually happened is people were like, oh, he must be really good.
[00:10:12] And Yeah.
[00:10:13] request went up.
[00:10:14] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yep. I believe it.
[00:10:15] James Marland, MBA: could try that or maybe not, I don't know.
[00:10:18] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. No, I love that. I love that strategy. I, yeah, and, and it is, it is so fascinating. Like the whole, the whole notion of pricing, uh, partic like in, in all industries, but I, in our industry of, you know, training and development is so variable and so, uh, it is, it is interesting tactic.
[00:10:36] James Marland, MBA: All right. So, um, I guess now would be a good time to start talking about, uh, something that you're an expert in is like change and change management Hmm.
[00:10:45] an organization, even a small organization, even two people organization. There, there, uh, some things need to change, I suppose. Even if you're a solo solopreneur, [00:11:00] you, you also have to change too.
[00:11:02] So I was more thinking in a group context, but I bet this would apply to everybody. And, and, and, um, you know, I, uh, my experience was being in a, on a hospital system like I worked, uh, admissions for. A lot of different programs, but outpatient, inpatient day hospital and a couple other things. So, um, I, I was in the admission intake side and one of the, one of the things, um, that, that was, that I saw needed to be changed, uh, was, um, the, the amount of time it took for somebody to, from first call till. Uh, being scheduled, but, but that's just one thing. Like, like that's one sign. Like I saw this sign that people were waiting and hurting and we, we needed to do something to get it, to get it done. Or [00:12:00] another sign was when I, when I was leading people and people were, were grumbly and complaining and you weren't really sure what they were grumbly and complaining about, but there was grumbling and complaining and, and those are some of the. Signs that, or symptoms that change needs to happen. So can you, let's just start there. Like you,
[00:12:22] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:23] James Marland, MBA: when, when you're talking about change, it, it often doesn't show up as like a neon sign. Hey, change this thing, it, it shows up differently or sideways or like with signs and symptoms. Can you talk about that a little bit?
[00:12:37] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I, it is a big, it's a big topic and it's one I'm really passionate about. And, um, I, I wrote a book about this in, uh, 2019, so a number of years ago now. And, and my, my belief about, about change is that there are, I. There are seven primary predictors, or, or you could call them influencers.
[00:12:58] And so, so when [00:13:00] thinking about, you know, is there a change that needs to happen or, or I, I'm wanting to create a change. How do I do it? You know, I, I go back to this, to this system, these seven, you know, pillars or seven influencers. And the reason I say that James is 'cause I think it can be like with all things, it's helpful for all of us to have a framework.
[00:13:19] To be able to lean on, to understand where am I at in the process, what's influencing where I'm at, and, and you know, where do I want to go and what are the influencers of, of that, that direction. And so those, those seven real quick are, um, cognition, which is the way we tend to think about problems. Heart, our emotional capacities, our emotional intelligence, um, action, our behavior routines, habits, uh, nourishment, how we treat our, our, uh, physical experience, uh, movement, sleep, and, and nutrition.
[00:13:49] I. Um, the next one is called Guts, which is all about courage. So we can have all these other things in place, but if we don't have courage to act often that's the stifler of our [00:14:00] progress, um, environment, which is our, uh, the people, places, and things we are surrounded by, or we choose to surround ourselves with.
[00:14:08] Then lastly, spirit, the nature of our belief systems, both the grand beliefs around, you know, what, what's the nature of existence as well as the beliefs around what is possible within my own lived experience. And so, so those seven, they're big categories, but my, my argument is, is that no matter the change there is, there is one or two or maybe three of those that are radically influencing the progress or stagnation of that change.
[00:14:34] James Marland, MBA: And this, you could, uh, as I was talking about signs and symptoms. Each category probably has different signs and symptoms. You
[00:14:44] can, Yeah, you can point to.
[00:14:46] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: exactly.
[00:14:47] James Marland, MBA: do you have, uh. I struggle sometimes with coming up with examples. Uh, do you have an example of a, of, of a, a sign or symptom from one of the, from one of the categories.
[00:14:59] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: [00:15:00] Sure. Yeah. And it's funny, I was with a group, uh, just a few weeks ago and this similar, similar question came up and, and we were talking about like, what are the, like I'm wanting to make a change, like in my. In my personal life as, as someone's example was, you know, and they're like, what are, you know, what are the things I need to be aware of?
[00:15:17] And the, the category that I gave them that I think is the one that maybe is, um, hardest to see or maybe difficult to, to consider as a self-reflection activity is environment is. And I say that because oftentimes the, the, the people we're around or the places that we are in, or even the spaces we spend on our time online.
[00:15:40] Are often keeping us in a stuck position. So re regard whatever the change might be. Our environment is, is keeping us where we currently are. And so it oftentimes requires if we have a radical change that we're trying to make, we need to surround ourselves with people, places, and things that are [00:16:00] more congruent with that new state.
[00:16:02] That we're trying to get to, and that that can be a, that can be a, um, a difficult, you know, a difficult shift to make because oftentimes it's accompanied with perhaps some loss or some adjustment of boundaries or adjustment of, you know, new, new relationships perhaps. And so, so that's one example.
[00:16:21] James Marland, MBA: Great. And, and that sort of leads us into the middle part here of, uh, the struggles of change.
[00:16:27] Because Hmm. you've, you know, like, oh, I gotta change something. There's all these forces that are trying to keep you not changing. I.
[00:16:35] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Exactly. Internal and external. If somebody's made a decision to change, what are some of the struggles that they should expect that they're gonna face?
[00:16:44] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I think they can expect, you know, some discomfort. They can expect some, you know, confusion. They can expect some resistance to your point, right? There are factors that maybe are trying to push us toward keeping us the same. Um, the, the thing, the [00:17:00] thing that I would say is like the, the.
[00:17:02] Helpful tool to keep us in the right direction is to really clearly define what does success look like so that we have like something that we can see on the horizon that we're moving towards. Because I think, I think without that, it's easy to get kind of sucked back in to old ways of being, or old relationships or old habits or old beliefs, you know?
[00:17:24] And go back to these seven categories.
[00:17:26] James Marland, MBA: Yeah, I can think of, um. There, there are changes that I've wanted to make. Let, uh, in work, in planning, let, let's just say a, I, uh, I've tried several times to move to like click up or some other project management tool,
[00:17:45] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Hmm. Okay. Yep.
[00:17:47] James Marland, MBA: They're not terribly difficult, but it's new to me. And so what do I end up going back to do when I'm like, rushed for time or I'm not exactly sure how to do it.
[00:17:58] I'll go back to a spreadsheet [00:18:00] or
[00:18:00] a Mm-hmm.
[00:18:01] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:02] James Marland, MBA: something. That's not, not my ideal way of doing things, but it's comfortable,
[00:18:09] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Sure.
[00:18:09] James Marland, MBA: it. I feel successful.
[00:18:12] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Sure.
[00:18:13] James Marland, MBA: I love clickup by the way. I, it just. I struggled to learn all its features, but, um,
[00:18:20] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah.
[00:18:21] James Marland, MBA: anyways, does that make sense? Is
[00:18:22] that It does.
[00:18:23] to, to change in the problem of change?
[00:18:26] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: It does. Yeah. Can I give you a, like, tie in these categories into what you're describing? So I'll use two of them. So, so two of the seven categories I just mentioned. One is, one is cognition. So cognition is about how, kind of, how we think about problems or challenges. So my, my invitation to you could be in this case, is to really clearly define out.
[00:18:46] Like, what are all the advantages and what is this amazing new state that's gonna exist when clickup is, is embodied? Like, or when it's, when it's when it, when you have it in, in action.
[00:18:56] James Marland, MBA: and
[00:18:57] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. and I Yep.
[00:18:58] James Marland, MBA: it with people [00:19:00] and I like, I can build a team, like
[00:19:02] Yeah.
[00:19:02] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. there is a ton of
[00:19:05] yeah, I.
[00:19:06] James Marland, MBA: for a project management system.
[00:19:08] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: That's amazing. So, so you, so I would suggest you wanna write all that out and have it clearly defined, like on, in whatever way you do that, a journal or a spreadsheet, or.
[00:19:16] James Marland, MBA: on a, on a scrap of paper that I'm gonna lose
[00:19:19] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Somewhere. No, some, somewhere where it can stay top of mind. Right. So that's, so that's kind of changing the way you think about the problem.
[00:19:26] So that's cognition. Next I'm gonna go to environment, which again is the people, places, and things we're surrounded by. So in this case, James, what I would suggest is that, that you bring in some accountability partner.
[00:19:38] To hold you to keeping this change in action and, and I say inaction because this is a great example of, it's probably not something you're gonna like flip a switch on and it's done the next day.
[00:19:48] It's gonna be a process to move things over, but having accountability or someone in the environment that can keep you to the change that you're saying you want. Um, is, is a way to kind [00:20:00] of ensure that, you know, sure. That that'll, that you'll get there. And so those are just two, you know, again, cognition environment.
[00:20:05] Two examples of, in this case, how to perhaps influence success on this change you're describing.
[00:20:11] James Marland, MBA: so there's a lot of levers. This is, it's uh, your framework's kind of layered here 'cause there's levers to ensure success
[00:20:18] too. Correct. Yeah. You could think about each category as a lever or an influencer. Mm-hmm. That's Yep. Yep.
[00:20:26] Uh, so, so how do you know, like you've never done changing,
[00:20:31] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:32] James Marland, MBA: but uh, how do you know when you're successful? suppose it, it goes back to, well, I'll let you answer that, but how do you know when you're successful?
[00:20:41] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it goes back to that, that pre definition of saying, okay, when, what is the measure of success here? What is the targeted new state I want to be, or I wanna experience or I wanna see in my life? I think, I think that like, that self-defined path is the best measure of [00:21:00] success because to your point, you know, we're, we're, we're always in flux.
[00:21:04] We're always gonna be changing. There's always new. You know, new, new things that will rise that will make us wanna shift into, into something new. And so defining success for ourselves, I think is the, is the secret.
[00:21:15] James Marland, MBA: yeah, because, and, and,
[00:21:17] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah,
[00:21:18] James Marland, MBA: I think that might be some of the key things missing. When people make a change, they're just like, I need to make a change. And they make a change, but they don't define what that end result looks like,
[00:21:30] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: exactly.
[00:21:32] James Marland, MBA: to struggle for weeks or months.
[00:21:35] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah,
[00:21:36] James Marland, MBA: without Yeah, the clear end goal in mind, like that end goal is really powerful, isn't it?
[00:21:42] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: it is. Yeah. I, I would actually say that without it, we may, the struggle will maintain, or we'll, or we'll dis or we'll dismiss it. We'll say, oh, this isn't, this isn't working, or this, I don't wanna do this anymore. Or, you know, this isn't worth it. Right.[00:22:00]
[00:22:01] James Marland, MBA: Yeah, that's, that's really good. Um, the, uh, you're, you're speaking a lot to entrepreneurs here though, 'cause uh, like a lot of times they will. You know, take, jump out of that comfort zone, try something new, and then it's really difficult. Like
[00:22:18] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:18] James Marland, MBA: I don't remember if we were talking in the show or before the show.
[00:22:21] Sometimes these, you know, jumping from, from a paycheck to entrepreneurship is like the biggest struggle of your life,
[00:22:30] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah,
[00:22:31] James Marland, MBA: expect it.
[00:22:32] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: correct. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:34] James Marland, MBA: oh, I got this idea and product and I, I, people will love me. And I, I've, I've already sold one. Or whatever and, and that means I'm gonna sell a thousand or what, you know, it just doesn't work
[00:22:47] way Yeah.
[00:22:47] it is in our mind.
[00:22:49] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I think entrepreneurship is, is the, one of the best self-development exercises available to us as humans. Yeah. [00:23:00] 'cause it forces it, you know, if, if you're willing to stick with it, it forces all of us that take that path to really look at all, all of our, you know, our, our beliefs, our relationships, our attachments, our, you know, all our confidence, like a thousand other things.
[00:23:17] James Marland, MBA: Man, we could probably talk a lot change,
[00:23:20] but, uh, I wanted to sort of, uh, give you an opportunity to share your, your resource on resources on change and tell people where they can find you. Uh, to learn more about change and change management.
[00:23:34] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Sure, yeah. Yeah. You can go to our website, which is arc integrated.com. Uh, we work with organizations, um, typically in the space of healthcare, uh, tech and service-based businesses. Um, and you can read all about us there. If you want a free playbook around change management, you can go to arc integrated.com/free.
[00:23:55] And there's a download with a, with a bunch of goodies, including an audio book from the book I wrote, [00:24:00] and a, a workbook around these seven influencers and a handful of other things.
[00:24:04] James Marland, MBA: Wonderful. Yeah, I, I'd recommend go, go get that resource, uh, on change management. We're all in the process of change, so you're either gonna need this now or you're gonna need it a little bit later, but you're gonna have it from, from, uh, Michael. So, hey, thanks so much for being on the show. I really appreciate our conversation and, uh, thanks for the work you do with, uh, leaders in Change Management.
[00:24:28] Michael Dettrich-Chastain, LCMHC: Oh, you're very welcome. Thanks for having me, James. It's a pleasure to see you again.
[00:24:31] James Marland, MBA: All right, listeners, you've, you've heard it, you're always in, you're always in gonna be changing, but now maybe you're a little more informed about what are the things that, uh, the signs, symptoms, and definition of success for change. I love it. Uh, it gave me a lot to think about. I might try clickup again. I identify why I am really doing it and what I can get out of it. Okay, thanks for listening. It's now time to go put your mission in motion [00:25:00] and that's the end of the show.
[00:25:10] This is the placeholder for the main show. Drag and drop your full edited episode file right on top of this clip to replace it. Additionally, you could probably right click and replace with this clip
[00:25:29] you do you.
[00:25:35] If I ever have an outro clip, this is where I would place the outro clip. Maybe it's an ad, maybe it's a reminder to do something. Maybe it's just a thank you to do the show, for the show and, uh, like, subscribe and share. I'm not sure what purpose this clip has, but this is the outro clip [00:26:00] placeholder template.
