How to Navigating Change: Resilience and Rebranding with Steve Bisson
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[00:00:03] Steve Bisson: When it doesn't serve you anymore or it doesn't work for you anymore, you gotta move on.
[00:00:07] You gotta do things and you gotta transition. And that's what I did. And you know, learning to transition has been always a lesson in life. And when I was young, I was able to push through, I don't have to grind anymore about things I don't like, I don't need to do that stuff anymore.
[00:00:23] And doing things that are grinding and all that is just not interesting to me. So I think that that's what led me to make a lot more decisions that sometimes are hard. Hi friend. Welcome to the scaling therapy practice. I'm James Marland, your course creation coach.
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[00:01:06] I.
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[00:01:09] James Marland: Hello friend, and welcome back to the Scaling Therapy Practice. This is your host, James Marland. Remember, this is the show where we empower mission-driven leaders. Therapists and coaches to launch life-changing online courses Today I have my good friend with me, Steve Basal. Uh, he is a fellow podcast, uh, host and he helps first responders and people with trauma. He's got a really interesting story about his podcast journey. I think he was last on the show a year ago, maybe, maybe a year and a half,
[00:01:39] Steve Bisson: Yeah, around there.
[00:01:40] James Marland: an excellent series on marketing your therapy practice and. gonna bring some insights into our show today about branding, niching, and reaching your core audience. Steve, it's a pleasure to have you. Welcome back to the show.
[00:01:55] Steve Bisson: Well, always great to be here, James. I appreciate you.
[00:01:58] James Marland: Thanks. Same, [00:02:00] same. uh, we're gonna get into our topic about, uh, reaching your core audience and niching. And you have been on a journey with your podcast and your branding. Um. And, uh, why don't you, why don't you bring us up to speed? Like, how long have you had your podcast, what was it called? Why did you call it?
[00:02:19] And then we'll get into why you are changing.
[00:02:22] Steve Bisson: Okay, well, um, my first podcast, well, it's still available, don't get me wrong. It was finding your way through Therapy and the branding came from the book. So basically when I started, I wrote a book. People said, oh my God, this could be good podcasts. I. So I created the podcast, finding Your Way Through Therapy.
[00:02:41] Um, so that's how it started. And, you know, I truly enjoy doing, finding Your Way through Therapy. The one thing that I kind of like felt lost about is while, um, and again, not to pick on any of my guests, so I'll talk about a topic. We never, I never went on on my podcast. You know, how can your cat save your [00:03:00] life, which is, could be mental health related, right?
[00:03:02] And I get that. Um. I had limited interest in that. Not that it's like I have cats, I love cats, but, and there's other topics I don't,
[00:03:11] James Marland: Be careful. You're gonna step on toes here.
[00:03:14] Steve Bisson: uh, yeah, well, you know me, I'm really good at that too.
[00:03:16] James Marland: time.
[00:03:18] Steve Bisson: Um, but no, I think, I think that, um, the bottom line is that I, I really found, like, you know, I've loved, I've worked with first responders for 20 plus years.
[00:03:30] Um, I'm an EMDR. I move in desensitization and reprocessing therapists, which is for trauma. And I've worked with grief on the crisis team and actually sometimes I would be called in for all the grief processes that needed to be done. So that's what I was really interested in. And while I love finding your way through therapy and all the subjects we talked about, there's some that were less motivating than others, and that had nothing to do with the gas.
[00:03:54] It had nothing to do with the topic. It had to do with me and my interests. And I also [00:04:00] noted on a, uh, let's be a businessman for a second. Um, when I did do trauma first responder or um, grief stuff, my numbers were higher and corporates corporate, uh, coaching too. Those numbers were high. When there was other topics that were not as related, my numbers were lower, and my guess I identified my, my, uh, audience, really liking those subjects.
[00:04:28] Which I know it seems out of left field to talk about coaching, but I feel like people who are, uh, in the C-suite world sometimes have that same isolation that sometimes first responders get and all that. So that's why I think it is related. So I decided to like work on a rebrand for that.
[00:04:42] James Marland: So you, um, it's this, this, maybe this isn't shocking, but you found a topic that you loved, that you're good at, that you're experienced in, and that you're passionate about. when you spoke about those things, it really [00:05:00] connected with your core audience. You got better numbers, more response, and uh, you know, more, more interaction with what you were. What you really wanted to do. Is that right?
[00:05:11] Steve Bisson: Not only that, I think I was more interested. And again, nothing against anyone else that didn't talk about those things. Please understand. I respect my audience. I love cats. For the record, I love dogs. I don't want anyone to be pissy about this.
[00:05:26] James Marland: Oh, I hope you get an email.
[00:05:27] Steve Bisson: Oh,
[00:05:28] James Marland: hope you get an email.
[00:05:29] Steve Bisson: I, I'm listening to resilience development in action just to hear if he says anything bad about cats.
[00:05:34] Um, but, um, no, I really, you know, like I, I really felt that it was resonating with me
[00:05:42] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:05:43] Steve Bisson: and I was key to part of it and it was resonating with my audience.
[00:05:48] James Marland: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:49] Steve Bisson: think a lot of, like what happened is I threw myself into podcasting. Uh, not that I didn't enjoy my subjects, but I really didn't think about it.
[00:05:57] Finding your way through therapy is a very general subject, [00:06:00] and I think that that's where we can call it a mistake, a rethought, you can think about whatever you want. I just learned from that.
[00:06:08] James Marland: Somebody, somebody yesterday said, uh, it was, um. Life equity, I guess like it, don't call it a mistake. It's like it's a le a lesson you learned through life, like life equity. I'm not sure if that's the right title, but it, it's like you paid for your experience, you got the experience, you paid for it with your time and your, you know, your energy.
[00:06:32] But at the end you got, you got a, uh, a better result at the end. I think. I love that reframe by the way. 'cause I get. Down on myself sometimes about, oh, you wasted all this time, or You should have been more optimized. Or if you just knew what you were doing, you'd be further along. But you know, the reality is we, most entrepreneurs don't really know exactly what they're doing.
[00:06:55] They just wanna take action on, on something and get it moving.
[00:06:59] Steve Bisson: [00:07:00] And I think that that's where I came to the realization that everything's moving parts in life.
[00:07:06] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:07:06] Steve Bisson: You know, if you know the, to give you how much my life has shifted as a therapist, my training from Assumption University is. Um, children and family services, basically working with children and families. I work with no children and no families now.
[00:07:24] Um, yet that was my training. And so sometimes, you know what I, I pick up a lot of my, um, I don't know what it is, marketing, if you like a better word, from, you know, we, we have our group at the site craft
[00:07:35] James Marland: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:36] Steve Bisson: that was really helpful. But most importantly, and this is gonna sound strange, but from professional wrestling, and what I mean by that is professional wrestling.
[00:07:46] The characters that everyone could probably name right now, those are the closest to who they are. Not only the persona, but who they are as a human being. And I knew that when I was talking about X, Y, Z, but it wasn't close to my heart. It wasn't [00:08:00] as important. Yeah, it probably showed a little bit, maybe unconsciously to most people, but it probably showed so I, to get closer to my character, I'm a little rough around the edges, as you know, James, uh, you promised not to bleep me today, so that's great.
[00:08:13] James Marland: no bleeps.
[00:08:13] Steve Bisson: Uh, but, um, the,
[00:08:17] James Marland: with that power though,
[00:08:18] Steve Bisson: oh, I, I still haven't sworn you see, I'm being careful today. Um,
[00:08:22] James Marland: on your best behavior.
[00:08:23] Steve Bisson: yeah. Well, I, it, and I just want the audience to understand that it's, it's okay for you, like you said, a, you saw life equity or reframe and life experiences. And really going back to, I love working with my first responders. They speak my language.
[00:08:37] This is my second language. And you know, I'm not good at using the big old words. It's just not me. Um, and to me, I'm a raw guy. I worked on a crisis team, absolutely adored it when I worked on a crisis team, and that's where I worked with the first responders mostly, and that's where I also dealt with grief and trauma.
[00:08:55] So it's closer to the character of who I am and what I enjoy. This, which is what [00:09:00] professional wrestling would say is most effective characters.
[00:09:03] James Marland: And, uh, yeah. Um. So, man, I could go on that for a little bit, but I wanted to get into the point where you started noticing this and you started making a change, which, you know, any change is hard. But when you've been working on something for, I don't know, two years, three years, five years, I'm not sure how long you had your
[00:09:26] Steve Bisson: My fourth anniversary will be May 24th.
[00:09:29] James Marland: Yeah. When you've invested four years. something and podcast is a grind. People like
[00:09:36] Steve Bisson: Yes.
[00:09:37] James Marland: it might seem like it's 20 minutes, but there's a lot that goes on and a lot of things, uh, investment that goes on. And so you built that up, you built the brand, you built the webpage, you had the book, like it's a huge investment and now you're rebranding.
[00:09:53] So can you talk me through. Like, what was the tipping point for you when you're like, you know what, I just gotta [00:10:00] pull the trigger and, and, and go all in on what is what, what I enjoy, and what is getting me the results?
[00:10:08] Steve Bisson: well, the, I'll start off with a joke. Well, I had found myself through therapy, so it wasn't no longer relevant. Um, but with all joking aside, I also kinda like, I started not, like I, you talk about the grind of podcasting, it became an extreme grind when I was like working with something that wasn't as enjoyable to me.
[00:10:28] And I was like, Ugh, I gotta record, you know? And, and that's not an, again, I want to be clear for those of you who are interested in being. Uh, creative and wanna do this. This is not an attack on anyone. This is not, oh my God, Julie, Frank or Helen drove me nuts. It had nothing to do with that. It had to do with me going, Ugh, I don't wanna do that.
[00:10:48] And I, one of the things that I promised myself throughout my career is to always be true to me. And I realized I was no longer true to myself. And so, you know, like I would [00:11:00] have the tra like again, it sounds weird. Oh, trauma and grief. You're right. That was like nice and energized for that. Um, but, you know, uh, subject A, B, C and you'll notice I'm being very careful as to what I say.
[00:11:11] Yes. It's a little bit of my persona in the sense that I don't want anyone to feel attacked for real. 'cause it wasn't an attack on anyone. But there are some, some subjects I'd be like, oh my god, really? You know?
[00:11:21] James Marland: here, I'll, I'll share an example. Um, I, I, uh, edit a financial planners podcast, an accountant, and my name gets put on their podcast, uh, well at least the, the course creation studio. so I get many, many, many, many requests from accountants to be to, to be on the show. And. I just, I, I have one or two that I really like, and then I say no to everybody else because while the show is more about creating, uh, online courses and online community, and money's [00:12:00] a part of that, I don't wanna do 50 shows on accounting a year.
[00:12:05] Like it was, it was like, oh, I, I gotta start saying no, otherwise I'm just gonna end up doing stuff I don't want to do. Like,
[00:12:13] Steve Bisson: Right.
[00:12:14] James Marland: I
[00:12:14] Steve Bisson: I agree.
[00:12:14] James Marland: say any names. See no names.
[00:12:17] Steve Bisson: See, we're, we're so, we're so freaking mature.
[00:12:22] James Marland: And, and, uh, and the, the people that I had on, I loved their message. I just, it was just too much. So, yeah. So you were being more authentic and more true to yourself as you were going through this, this, uh, rebranding phase.
[00:12:38] Steve Bisson: And I would say that it started this summer because this summer I had no, like I was getting requests or people, people I knew and I was not motivated whatsoever. And then I went for eight weeks night, weeks of repeats
[00:12:53] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:12:53] Steve Bisson: and I'm like, ah, so this isn't true to me anymore. So that's where really that. You know, to not be too therapeutic, but you [00:13:00] know, where I went from pre-contemplative to contemplative, I may need to make a change.
[00:13:04] And so in the fall I started exploring different things, talking to friends, family, people I know, and, uh, and truthfully ai, um, and working on what should I rebrand myself, what's my motivation? And then it really became clear between the conversations, not just ai, it sounds like I just talked to a bot, but, um, and it really made me realize what I really wanted to do.
[00:13:28] And so that's where I started planting the seeds, but I didn't wanna change it. So suddenly Go ahead.
[00:13:33] James Marland: So I have a question though, because a lot of people realize what they really wanna do, but they stay where they are. They, they don't break free. You actually made it outside the orbit of, well, I could just keep doing this and it's okay to like, I'm going to do something that's uncomfortable. Um. Not sure where my question is there, but I'm just pointing it out like there's a big difference between wanting, [00:14:00] wanting and knowing something's better and doing it.
[00:14:03] And normally, okay, it's a business type thing. Normally that's either because the pain is too great to stay where you are, that you have a future goal, like like, I gotta serve this group of people because that's where I get, that's where I get the most enjoyment and, and, uh, pleasure out of life.
[00:14:24] And sometimes it's probably a little bit of both, right? The pain of like, oh, I
[00:14:28] Steve Bisson: Right.
[00:14:28] James Marland: another episode that I don't wanna do. And the, the joy of like, I am really helping first responders and people with trauma get over their stuff. Beep.
[00:14:40] Steve Bisson: Yeah. See now you, you, you see, you said no beeping.
[00:14:44] James Marland: almost, I
[00:14:45] Steve Bisson: yeah, yeah. You said no beeping and you just dead, man.
[00:14:47] James Marland: It was close.
[00:14:48] Steve Bisson: Um, yeah, no, I think that. I, I, I guess where I, I'll tell you, I, I did my podcast. My, for those of you who may, who don't know me, my first language is French. It's not English. [00:15:00] Uh, and I grew up in Montreal, born and raised for 24 years.
[00:15:03] Came here 20, like 26 years ago. So figure out the math. You know, my name, my age now. Um, but one of the things is when I did the podcast in French, it didn't bite. It didn't, no one really listened to it. Um, and I took the difficult decision of stopping. It only lasted about nine months. And I remember at the time like, no, I'm gonna push through.
[00:15:25] I'm gonna push through. And someone said to me, are you gonna push through just to prove your point? Are you just gonna push through to burn yourself out and say, see this, burn me out, and then be not interested in any podcast whatsoever. So sometimes you gotta put your arms down and say, okay, let's still take a step back, learn something.
[00:15:42] And as EI make it sound easy. It wasn't a, it wasn't that. Uh, easy for me to say to stop, but I had to because that was for my own benefit. And I guess with age you learn that, um, if you're doing something you don't enjoy, like when I was 25 or even 23 and I worked [00:16:00] in a supermarket, uh, I love supermarkets, but ex it's not exactly what I wanted to do with life.
[00:16:05] James Marland: any supermarkets. We're not gonna, you know,
[00:16:09] Steve Bisson: Oh,
[00:16:10] James Marland: bad against supermarkets.
[00:16:12] Steve Bisson: go listen to my podcast.
[00:16:13] James Marland: we don't want those angry supermarket letters
[00:16:16] Steve Bisson: Well, you can get all the supermarket letters all you want. They can go listen to my podcast. I've said if I can heal every human being in the world, that would be the job I go back to. 'cause I love working in supermarkets, so it's.
[00:16:28] James Marland: I would work as a, a cook at a restaurant. I don't know why I liked that job. It was like one of the, the, the, the, uh, uh, fast, fast-paced pressure cooker for the, not a better term. Uh. Dirty jobs, but it was, uh, it was fun. Anyways, go ahead.
[00:16:47] Steve Bisson: Well, I agree. I had a lot of fun doing the supermarket stuff, so if I can heal everyone through my podcast and or my therapy, I'll go back to working in the supermarket tomorrow morning. I love them, but it wasn't exactly my goal. I wanted to be working [00:17:00] as a therapist, and so you need to find. When it doesn't serve you anymore or it doesn't work for you anymore, you gotta move on.
[00:17:07] You gotta do things and you gotta transition. And that's what I did. And you know, learning to transition has been always a lesson in life. And when I was young, I was able to push through, you know, I'm, I'm 49 now. I gave my age away. I'm 49, I'll be 50 this summer. I don't have to grind anymore about things I don't like, I don't need to do that stuff anymore.
[00:17:29] You know, I, I'm on the other side of that whole, uh, lifespan, right? Um, I'm no longer young. I'm probably past half my, li my life and doing things that are grinding and all that is just not interesting to me. So I think that that's what led me to make a lot more decisions that sometimes are hard. And yeah, I was invested.
[00:17:50] I, you know, I paid for the podcast. I paid for, uh, the distributor, I paid for the editor, I paid all that. But if I wasn't enjoying it, what was the point to continue [00:18:00] grinding on that? And that's how I came to that conclusion. I.
[00:18:05] James Marland: Um, you're doing, you're, uh, maximizing your, your life energy, you know. So, um, uh, with the last few minutes here, I guess I wanna think about your, your, your new rebrand. 'cause I think people might wanna know, well, how do you, how do you name stuff, right? Like. Naming is important. I, I ended up with scaling therapy practice 'cause I, it started out with me and a psychologist talking about therapy practices it still works with the course creation business, but it's not a, you know, at some point I'm probably gonna rebrand the name of the podcast 'cause it's not quite on brand for exactly what it is anymore.
[00:18:47] But I just don't have the energy to rebrand right now. Um. Then I have course creation studio, which is like, it seems like a mouthful. I'm sort of like, I wish I would've chosen a shorter name [00:19:00] and whatever. So as you think about naming and uh, uh, rebranding, how did you, you know, what was your process? Or if somebody's gonna rebrand, do you have any like, tips for them or even just name their thing for the first time?
[00:19:14] Steve Bisson: Well, the first thing is to talk to people who like those subjects, uh, working with therapists who are trauma driven. Well, trauma driven sounds terrible, but you know what I mean. Uh, grief. First responders and you know, the word that kept on coming up, it was strength, um, uh, and all that. But the resilience came up.
[00:19:35] And then when you read a lot of the data in regards to first responders and all that, resilience is a word that pops regularly. But ultimately, we don't wanna make people feel bad that they don't have resilience sometimes on certain things. So calling it get some resilience sounded pretty terrible. Um.
[00:19:53] Uh, so I, we went with, like, I, and I started looking at different names and yes, I threw stuff on ai and [00:20:00] again, people who are scared in our field of ai, more than happy to have a a hundred minute conversation about that. 'cause I don't think we should be scared. Just I. Um, embrace it and
[00:20:09] James Marland: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:10] Steve Bisson: came up with that, and then the development in action made it sound like it was helpful.
[00:20:14] There's names that came out that were like, you know, seven letters, you know, and there would be an acronym like, uh, you know, RFCK, and you're like, who's gonna even ever say that? But this one came up and one of the things that people said to me is, finding your way through therapy is a mouthful.
[00:20:30] Resilience, development and action is a mouthful. Well, the, my old podcast, F-Y-W-T-T, makes limited sense for people to say it that way. RDA, however, is a really easy one to remember and that's why resilience development in action. I know there's an I in there, but you can omit the words that are two letters and calling it RDA or resilience Development in action makes, makes it a lot easier.
[00:20:53] So that's how I really came up with it. It embraced trauma, grief. Corporate people, but more [00:21:00] importantly, my first responders. If you look at the logo, if you're on YouTube, uh, in the back, there's, you know, the fire, um. The fire hoses are on there. The EMT paramedic sign is on there. There's a badge up top, and then there's a psychology sign on the bottom, which was really like something I worked with, uh, a couple of designers to do.
[00:21:18] Um, and I've transitioned slowly but surely in the sense that I've always admired like a Starbucks of the world who change your logo fairly consistently. But most of you would be like, Steve, you're wrong. They don't actually, they do, and, but it's so subtle that it changes. So I wanted to make that rebrand.
[00:21:35] A subtle move to that. It was a little quicker than what Starbucks would like me to do, but nonetheless, I'm Steve. So right now, you know, resilience development in action is gonna be the new name where I'm in the, and I don't know when this will be published, but you know, the, the middle, middle time would be, it was called Finding Your Way.
[00:21:54] Uh, first of, uh, resilience development in Action. Um, so, and now.
[00:21:59] James Marland: [00:22:00] uh, launch of the, the rebrand, like the full.
[00:22:03] Steve Bisson: The full rebrand will be gone on, will be going on on April 16th, 2025.
[00:22:08] James Marland: Okay. This will probably come out a little after
[00:22:11] Steve Bisson: Perfect.
[00:22:12] James Marland: uh, right around there, late spring probably. So that's neat. So you're, you, you, you put a lot of thought into it. I like the logo. I think it really speaks to your brand. I think, uh, resilience, development, and action, the three. Three word titles are, that's the max they wanted, from what I've read, three words. But it's also really benefit driven. Like there's, like, there's a lot of benefit in what you say, like somebody searching for a podcast of on, um, for some support would probably search for resilience or something like that. And, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's a, it's, uh, it's, it fits, it hits a lot of the, the [00:23:00] markers.
[00:23:00] I have a, uh, I have a handout on name, of course, naming conventions, so if anybody emails me, I, I can give it to them. But yours followed a lot of that, that title, because if somebody who's like looking through a bunch of podcasts, like they're are books on a bookshelf. They might pick this one up. 'cause it's not just like resiliency 1 0 1 or what did you say? Get resilient
[00:23:28] Steve Bisson: Yeah, like get, get resilient.
[00:23:32] James Marland: So, yeah. Great. Um, how much, how much, uh, can I ask how much a logo rebrand costs
[00:23:41] Steve Bisson: Um, my, my, um, transition logo.
[00:23:46] James Marland: range? Yeah, gimme a
[00:23:47] Steve Bisson: My transition logo to my cur the current logo when this comes out, uh, costs me about $125 working with an artist.
[00:23:56] James Marland: Oh wow. That seems much cheaper than I would think.
[00:23:59] Steve Bisson: [00:24:00] Well, you know, the, again, I'm not gonna tell people how to do their thing, but I started off with, uh, an AI to give an idea of what the logo should look like,
[00:24:08] James Marland: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:08] Steve Bisson: and then I'm like, oh, I wanna tweak this. I want to tweak that. Then I worked with a human being who's like, oh yeah, I can build from that. And.
[00:24:15] James Marland: cut down like the initial back and forth and you gave them something mostly ready and then you used the human to put their creative touch on it. Actually, I really like that 'cause that, that, um, can cut down a lot of the, the work and the back and forth that is, so sometimes the, uh. The expensive part. Getting it, getting it, uh, put in the right direction. Great.
[00:24:38] Steve Bisson: So.
[00:24:39] James Marland: tell me about your future now. Like, uh, um, uh, uh, yeah, where is your website site changing? Is your social media changing? I'm sure you, you're gonna give me that for the show notes, but where can people find you online?
[00:24:52] Steve Bisson: Well, I kept, I'm gonna keep, this is where the key is, is that my business is called, uh, um, straight to the point Therapy. Again, [00:25:00] very identified to that. And, um, this is called resilience development in action. I'm working on a couple of books with different titles. I don't want to quite, quite share that just yet.
[00:25:08] It's not done. Um, but. The one thing I learned also from you and from listening to how to work stuff, my website is steve bison.com. That won't change 'cause Steve Bison's always gonna exist. Um.
[00:25:22] James Marland: name.
[00:25:22] Steve Bisson: So that's why like people looking for me will get that as a front page. And then my podcast is on there and my business is on there, and so on and so forth.
[00:25:30] And if you look for me for social media on most platforms, whether it's X, whether it's uh, Instagram or uh, Facebook or, uh, what's the other one? TikTok. And you can look for, uh, real, Steve Beon, RE, uh, just real Steve Beso. And to sound fancy, I say Ray Steve sunk.
[00:25:49] James Marland: Yeah. Yes.
[00:25:50] Steve Bisson: uh, a little bit of a, a European football or soccer as we call it, um, to, but that's how you can find me anywhere.
[00:25:59] 'cause I think [00:26:00] that what people want is consistency and the one consistent among all that is me.
[00:26:05] James Marland: Fantastic. So yeah, take, take, uh, uh, go to the show notes if you have trouble with that, or go to the website and you can find his podcast, his books, maybe a new book coming out sounds like, and, and all the resources. And, um, for, uh, do you do speaking engagements or just local? I know you've done some.
[00:26:26] Steve Bisson: I've done speaking engagements, uh, several places in the Northeast, but I'm always open to SP speaking engagement, especially.
[00:26:34] James Marland: responders resilience, trauma.
[00:26:35] Steve Bisson: Yeah.
[00:26:36] James Marland: Yeah. Great. Steve's, Steve's great. And, uh, make sure you look him up. Any final messages before we, uh, close out for the day?
[00:26:44] Steve Bisson: Uh, you know, the, you say you say this to everyone, right? And I, you, you've known me. Maybe your audience doesn't know me, but go listen to my podcast. I don't say things, I don't mean I listen to James podcast. I listen to it every single week. You will learn, pay attention, and [00:27:00] if it doesn't, one week doesn't resonate with you, listen to the other week.
[00:27:03] But there's always something that resonates with James and I'm, you know, it's not because we're friends or we know each other, truly. I do listen to it, then that's the truth.
[00:27:10] James Marland: Thanks Steve. Uh, I, I don't know how to end better than that. So everybody thank you. And, uh, remember if you're struggling, there is help out there for you and now it's time to go put your mission in motion. I.
