Untitled project from SquadCast
===
[00:00:00] James Marland: Roll with it. Now I gotta edit this out. All right, here we go. Hello, and welcome back to the Scaling Therapy Practice. This is your host, James Marlin. This is the show where we empower mission-driven leaders to launch life-changing online courses. Today I'm really excited to have my special guest, Leo DeRock here.
[00:00:29] He's a Counselor Choice Award for A-A-L-M-H-C,
[00:00:35] Leo: Yep.
[00:00:35] James Marland: which is
[00:00:36] Leo: it.
[00:00:36] James Marland: is the West coast version of a, uh.
[00:00:40] Leo: Ft.
[00:00:41] James Marland: Yeah. Yeah. Outta Washington State. And today we're gonna talk about CE courses and the five reasons why therapists don't make them. But first, uh, I wanna, I wanna ask Leo about, uh, counselor's Choice Award. And welcome, by the way, welcome to the show, Leo.
[00:00:58] Leo: Thank you.
[00:00:58] James Marland: uh,
[00:00:59] Leo: great to be back.[00:01:00]
[00:01:00] James Marland: yep. SEC two second time interview. But, uh, tell me about Council's Choice Award and what's the mission of, of that, uh, organization you run.
[00:01:10] Leo: So that is a group of people here that we help distinguish therapy tools, uh, practices, group practices, and even continuing education courses, which is why I'm here today to help them get recognized. 'cause there's a really of really bad ones out
[00:01:29] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:01:30] Leo: And, you know, I can't get rid of the bad ones, but what I can do is the good practices, good tools, I can help distinguish them.
[00:01:37] So me and my team, we people do product submissions or even like, Hey, my group practice follows these ethical standards and we, you know, aren't charging people through the nose for no shows. And like we, we do all these ethical things and we review them, your submission, uh, maybe ask you a couple extra questions and say, great, we write a blog post about you.
[00:01:57] So. do a push, add you to our [00:02:00] list of honorees, give you symbols to put on your website. So like you, we can say, and you can say with definitive, like, counselor's Choice Award has recognized me for this or for that, or for my product. Uh, and helps other therapists find them. 'cause it's really hard, uh,
[00:02:16] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:02:17] Leo: as one who works with children.
[00:02:19] So, uh, that's what it's all about. Uh, and same thing happens with continuing ed. There's a lot of bad ones out there. So we just started hosting our own 'cause then we can know that they're good,
[00:02:29] James Marland: Yeah, it makes me, it makes me wish there was a similar service for car mechanics because I have no idea who's good or who's gonna rip me off.
[00:02:39] Leo: right?
[00:02:41] James Marland: When it's a specialized service, something I have no, like, I don't, you know, I'm not a repairman. I can't, I don't know what, what breaks and how it breaks and how expensive things are.
[00:02:52] So you could tell me anything and I'd be like, uh oh, okay, sounds good. But I don't know if I'm getting scammed or not. And I'm not saying [00:03:00] therapists there, there's just when, when you don't know, you can't gauge quality. You need other indicators of quality.
[00:03:08] Leo: Especially when you're trying to get your kid a therapist or a counselor, you know? Right. Because like you, you're not gonna be in the room. You don't know, like, 'cause
[00:03:16] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:03:17] Leo: there are bad counselors out there who. I don't know if they thrive on keeping people just not well enough that they need to continue to see you.
[00:03:26] And it's, it's disheartening. Uh,
[00:03:28] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:03:29] Leo: so breaking through some of that
[00:03:31] James Marland: So you're, you're fighting against that and, uh, trying to improve the quality of therapy services and tools, but also education for, uh, therapists. Awesome. So, uh, one of my main questions like a couple years ago really when I started the, the podcast and started, uh, uh, course creation studio. So like, why aren't more therapists?
[00:03:53] Right. Making educational content, you know, what, what's the, what's the barriers? What is some of the [00:04:00] problems that they face? Because you, I, I'm not a therapist, but when I look at a good therapist, like they're almost magical. Like, like how they can draw things out from you and how they can get to the key issue and make you see things in a new way with like.
[00:04:21] Just question, like listening, looking at you in questions. Like, it's just crazy. But why so? Why aren't more people making educational content or therapists making educational content when the world needs great educational services, uh, for all sorts of problems? So, uh, you, we were talking and you said, uh, you, there's, you have five reasons.
[00:04:45] That's, that's the topic of the show. Well, it might be. That's the topic of the show. It might not be the title of the show, I have yet to make that, but that what, what are some of the, you know, reasons you've identified why therapists don't make [00:05:00] CE courses?
[00:05:02] Leo: I'm gonna start. Reason number one is like they, it's not that they don't want to. I have so many therapists that come up to me and they say, I want to, I've got this idea. It's just like, it just seems too hard.
[00:05:14] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:05:15] Leo: reason number one. It just seems too hard to get started. They don't know where to go and when they, you get them talking about it being like, I got this idea.
[00:05:23] There'll be a workshop, we'll have breakouts and we'll have consultation afterwards. It's like trying to eat an elephant. Like you
[00:05:29] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Leo: it one bite at a time. So it's, people don't start small. Uh, what I have them do is like, just write a blog about it. Like, can you get like a page, just a one
[00:05:39] James Marland: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:40] Leo: this topic? they need slides and checklists and templates, and they wanna make it like some 16 part series over the course of three years. Like, no, let's start with making a one hour course for just therapists, not even for like lay people, you know? And, and that's the big thing. It's like, it just seems too hard [00:06:00] because you're making it too hard, like just start writing a blog on it, and chances are once you get writing, you can move on to the next step.
[00:06:07] Make some PowerPoint slides on it. Um, so that's the biggest thing, um, because they don't know why they're doing it sometimes,
[00:06:14] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:06:15] Leo: that really comes down to. It's like they want to do it because maybe they're trying to impress themselves or have something to show that their business is successful and they know what they're doing, but like, they don't really have like a clear picture of why, um, and they don't necessarily enjoy the process.
[00:06:32] It's, it's. like wandering around in a dark forest at night. No one really wants to be wandering around at at night in the dark. It's kinda scary and you don't know what you're doing or where you're going, you need to start out small. It's not hard because it seems like it is and you need to do it because you enjoy the process 'cause you enjoy helping the world or teaching that one person, uh, not because you want the end product or, or things like that.
[00:06:58] And that's, uh, that's reason [00:07:00] number one.
[00:07:00] James Marland: So they make it too hard by. Uh, it makes me think of, uh, a small kid trying to climb a giant step. Like you can't get over the first step because you're, you, you don't have little steps in between.
[00:07:16] Leo: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:16] James Marland: so when you, when you think about, oh, I gotta have this done, when you were mentioning all the stuff, a little bit of anxiety started coming, like slides and research and, you know, all the, all the, the, all the PowerPoints and, and the.
[00:07:32] Leo: run through your head.
[00:07:33] James Marland: Yeah. You're like, oh, that, that'll take time. That'll take time. I don't know how to do that. Eh, you know, why, why even get started? Uh, so that is, that is a big, uh, a big reason. Like you, you do, you're doing too much. Um, would, uh, that, um, I think it's called something about gap. Like you think about the future and you work your way back.
[00:07:58] So if launching, if launching [00:08:00] the, the CE. Uh, CE course was the, the end goal. Like what's the next, the, the very next thing before that, which would be,
[00:08:12] Leo: Like
[00:08:13] James Marland: uh, all the slide, yeah. All the slides are done or the final, finalized, whatever. And before, that's the outline. And before that's the blog post. And before that is the type, you know, your topic, you break it down.
[00:08:26] That way you, you can take those steps. Um. That's how I was interpreting what you were saying.
[00:08:32] Leo: Yeah. I mean that's, that's exactly right. Is like I. It takes really like less than 15 minutes to plan out everything that you need to
[00:08:41] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:08:42] Leo: Um, but it's, I, you know, you, you give that example, but I think about this 'cause it happens so much with depressed clients. Like, well, I wanna become the president of the United States. Okay. Um, but, uh, let's first try brushing your teeth once a week. [00:09:00] first try getting up before noon or going to bed before
[00:09:02] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:09:03] Leo: once a week. It's like, oh, well that's such a small goal. And then they feel disappointed in themselves that they can't meet that small goal. It's like just, you have to eat the elephant one by the time.
[00:09:14] That's a really grotesque
[00:09:16] James Marland: the, the biggest, the biggest, uh, gain you're gonna make is zero to one.
[00:09:21] Leo: yeah,
[00:09:23] James Marland: Like,
[00:09:23] Leo: accountability of Buddy is, I think, really important in that too.
[00:09:28] James Marland: all right, great. Uh, what's, uh, what's, uh, reason number two?
[00:09:32] Leo: they just never get started. It's, it's that I'll do it sometime. I mean, I've
[00:09:38] James Marland: Oh.
[00:09:38] Leo: of a thousand things of like, I'll do this sometime. Um, but, uh, and, and I'm not saying like it's bad to like doom scroll or be on your phone.
[00:09:48] Everyone's gotta cope and check out sometimes. But how you get over like the, I'll do it sometime. Is to think about doing something new because we live in a [00:10:00] post information age. You can get any information you want, but the problem is continuing education. That's supposed to be something new. if I told you and I've had this happen, a nurse, uh, like a about a year ago came up to me saying that your client that I also see for medication needs to just get off their phone.
[00:10:21] This teenager. Well, I mean 18, but they just need to completely get off their phone. And I'm like, okay, this depressed teenager that is like trying to finish up high school. You want them to be off their phone completely. And they showed me this research from 10 years ago and I'm like, okay, so do you realize you're cutting off all of their social connection by
[00:10:40] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:10:41] Leo: Like, no. That is the worst thing you could do for this depressed individual is cut off all their social ties by giving them like, yes, they need reduced access to the phone and no, they shouldn't be at it on 2:00 AM that's not the solution. But they're, they were citing real research that's 10 years old.
[00:10:57] So how you get past all do [00:11:00] on do it sometime is like, you can do something new, you can help someone. There's already information out there, 10 years old, but. Uh, let, bad joke, right? How many
[00:11:11] James Marland: I love bad jokes.
[00:11:12] Leo: you? A light bulb, like does it take like a dozen therapists to change a light bulb?
[00:11:17] How many? Well, it only takes one, the light bulb has to want to change,
[00:11:23] James Marland: Yeah, I've heard that.
[00:11:25] Leo: right? Like it's, it's my favorite joke in the whole world. But the, the fact is. I'll do it sometime is sort of that same mentality of like, well, do you, do you want to contribute to the world? Because the fact is if you go to find something, there's probably already a CE on it or something like that.
[00:11:44] But you as a therapist have the potential to do something new and to help people understand things the way that you help them. And if that isn't motivation to just. Get started today, write a blog post, put something out there. [00:12:00] Uh, then maybe making CES isn't for you. But most people, they all do wanna put something new in the world.
[00:12:05] They do have that creative spirit. You just gotta do it.
[00:12:08] James Marland: Yeah, things, things, uh, get put in the desk drawer and then other things get put on top of 'em. And if you're not reminded of it or if it's not urgent, it just doesn't, it just doesn't happen if you don't schedule it or if you don't make it a priority or set a goal. I. It just, it really doesn't happen. I, I, from experience, like one of, um, some of the most out of control I felt is when I stopped writing my daily goals and I was just like, I'll just work on my list or whatever, and then I would just like work, work, work, work.
[00:12:42] Feel busy, but also feel stuck like, I'm not doing, like I'm not going anywhere. 'cause I stopped aiming my attention and, and scheduling a few things. Not a ton, but a few things on big goals. That took lots of time. So, yeah, not, not getting started and just letting other [00:13:00] things bury it is a huge reason why they, they don't get written.
[00:13:03] It's not because they don't have something to say or they're not a good teacher. It's just you just don't get started. So what's, uh, what's number three? I, uh, what's number three?
[00:13:13] Leo: Um, well this is maybe a little more on personal bias and experience, but like, I don't like the sound of my own voice
[00:13:20] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:13:20] Leo: how to teach, or I can't even leave a voicemail recording, much less how am I supposed to teach? And that's just what I hear is like, uh, like, I dunno, people make an excuses for themselves or something like that.
[00:13:33] Like, but I don't like the sound of my own voice. I'm not gonna listen to our recording. I'm sorry. But, um, uh, the fact is. That I think it's 50 50. The material itself is important, but how you teach it is the other 50%. I have had some really bad teachers that I learned something from because I maybe learned what not to do, but, uh, but that half of what you're teaching is how you teach it, and the other half is the [00:14:00] material itself. how do I put it? Uh, let your ears bleed. Um, you know what I mean? Like, let yourself just, uh. Get used to learning how to teach and learning how to talk to people, uh, in a, in a, you know, formal method like that where you're actually teaching the course. So the fact is your first one won't be good. You'll
[00:14:23] James Marland: Yep.
[00:14:24] Leo: be stuck and you probably won't like it, and that's okay.
[00:14:28] Um, my first recording was years and years ago. I watched it again recently and I'm like, I should take this down because this is not acceptable. And that's okay. 'cause that's where I got started.
[00:14:39] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:14:40] Leo: get, you don't have to be perfect. You just have to be okay. 'cause half of what you're teaching is gonna be the material, not how you teach it anyway.
[00:14:48] James Marland: Yeah. I, I tell people. When they get hung up on that, like your first one is your worst, but you have to do your worst to do your best.
[00:14:56] Leo: Yeah,
[00:14:57] James Marland: Yeah. You, you, you just can't.
[00:14:59] Leo: that.
[00:14:59] James Marland: [00:15:00] Yeah. Like you, you're just gonna get better. And the first one, uh, podcasting. I'm still not an excellent podcast. And if you go back and listen to my first podcast, wow.
[00:15:11] It is, it's rough. It's really rough. But, you know, a hundred episodes in, I'm a little more comfortable. I have a little more of a rhythm. I'm a little more comfortable with si like a little bit of silence. Like you, you learn those things. But if I wouldn't have started, I wouldn't have gotten any anywhere.
[00:15:29] Like, I'd just be like, oh, I wish, I wish I could podcast, or I wish I could be better speaker. Um, yeah. So, uh, I, I also think you, you kind of hit on it like. People like the result is what they want. They want the result. Like how many grainy videos have you watched or how many, like slightly off vid, like people with terrible slides, but their content is like mind blowing or really, really good or just their, their style is [00:16:00] good, even though they're not the best presenter and you're, and you don't remember, you don't remember their bad.
[00:16:08] Speech or style, you just remember, oh, this was a good speech. Even though in their own head the critic is like, oh, I'm so bad. You know, this is terrible. Um, just, yeah, you we're our own worst critic where people come for the content, not necessarily what, how you sound.
[00:16:26] Leo: Exactly. I would say number four that the technology seems overwhelming. Um, therapists are not tech savvy people, generally speaking. I think that's really fair to say, and it, it doesn't have to be hard and things have become a lot easier. Recently, like in the past couple of years,
[00:16:47] James Marland: Ah.
[00:16:48] Leo: so much easier that I don't think people realize that they already have all the skills they need to do this. Um,
[00:16:57] James Marland: Yeah,
[00:16:58] Leo: they probably already know [00:17:00] how to do it. They're just afraid that something's gonna go wrong and the technology will be bad and, uh
[00:17:05] James Marland: if you've shared your screen on Zoom,
[00:17:08] Leo: mm-hmm.
[00:17:09] James Marland: pretty much run a presentation, maybe just a few minute presentation, but you've run, you've run a presentation. All you gotta do is string a couple slides together. I. And you're good.
[00:17:20] Leo: exactly. It's, it's not as hard as it needs to be. The technology, especially the people who are. Maybe closer to retirement. They're seeing less clients and they'd want to do more of like passing on knowledge and stuff. They get so scared. It's like their mind goes blank when they're thinking of a little red light blinking or something. it's, it, it feels overwhelming, but like, it's just baby steps. Like, just try recording a slide. Just try sharing on Zoom. Um, you'll mess up. It will be okay. And you'll learn and you'll get better.
[00:17:57] James Marland: Yeah, yeah. The editing now [00:18:00] and the editing tools are better. Uh, I know, I don't think you can edit with Zoom, but I use a, a program called D Script.
[00:18:06] Leo: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:06] James Marland: script will fix my audio. It will fix, I, it will even have, like, if I look away, I can turn it so like the eyes will look at the screen. It's,
[00:18:17] Leo: That's cool.
[00:18:18] James Marland: it is, it's, it's, it's Fanta.
[00:18:21] There's AI to find clips, there's AI for audio leveling. Um, it's pretty cool. So you, but you don't have to do, use that program to just record on Zoom. So, uh, um. It's, it's, it's, uh, easier than you, you think it might be, because you've probably already done 70 to 80% of it.
[00:18:43] Leo: Yeah. Um, not to mention there's all kinds of free programs or even paid if you want something super shiny, for under like 20 bucks to just basically do it for you. Um, but, uh, that, that actually kinda bleeds into the next one, which is how do you [00:19:00] then accredit the courses 'cause. I,
[00:19:01] James Marland: Hmm.
[00:19:02] Leo: I mean, most people, and unfortunately not all therapists realize like not all CEEs are created equal.
[00:19:07] Not all of 'em you can use for your licensure. They have to get accredited. Otherwise, it's not a ce, it's just a piece of paper that says you went somewhere. but uh, that one I think scares people too. 'cause they think like, I don't even know how to do it. But like Counselor's Choice Award, they do all that for you.
[00:19:27] Like, don't. Start small. Don't just try and accredit your own courses 'cause you'll have to pay through the nose to accredit your own course. Just do a provider who's accredited and they're gonna sell it all for you. And you don't have to worry about, you know, putting it up on your website and hosting it and doing a post test and annual accreditation.
[00:19:47] Just give it to someone. Give it to many someones who are all accredited and sell it in a bunch of places. Um. The best way to become accredited is to not worry about it and give it to somebody else to do. They'll [00:20:00] take a cut, but then you don't have to pay. Uh, and it can be like four or 500 bucks a year, uh, depending on how many accreditations you get just for one course
[00:20:09] James Marland: accreditation process is expensive, you're saying?
[00:20:13] Leo: Yeah, so
[00:20:15] James Marland: Yeah.
[00:20:15] Leo: Um, give it to, to, to, to me, give it to you like, uh, especially this, if you're worried about the technology, like get an accountability buddy. You know, someone who can help you through all this, who's got the expertise, work smarter, not harder. Um, because you, we call it areas of genius.
[00:20:33] Do the things you're good at. If you're good at therapy and understanding this information, do that. Then give the technology and the accreditation to someone who's got a bureaucratic brain to do it all for you, and then we'll just give you a paycheck. So don't worry about how it gets accredited. Leave the stuff you're not good at to someone who's good at it.
[00:20:53] It's, it's, you'll go so much farther to together than you will alone.
[00:20:59] James Marland: Awesome. [00:21:00] So, uh, the, the five, the five, uh, the five, uh, reasons why people don't do it is it seems too hard to get started. They never get started, or they're, they're stuck with like, I'll do it someday.
[00:21:12] Leo: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:13] James Marland: don't like the sound of my own voice. Technology is too hard, or, I don't know how to get the, the course accredited.
[00:21:21] Leo: Exactly.
[00:21:23] James Marland: So you have a workshop coming up? Um, well, we have a workshop coming up talking about that very thing. It's, uh, Thursday, June 26th, 10:00 AM eastern to 12:00 PM Eastern. I don't know what that is. Pacific
[00:21:38] Leo: So 7:00 AM to
[00:21:39] James Marland: 7:00 AM
[00:21:40] Leo: Yeah,
[00:21:41] James Marland: the early risers, uh, it's called course Idea to Paycheck Workshop. Uh, could you talk a little bit about that and why we're putting it on.
[00:21:49] Leo: Yeah. So it's gonna be a two hour course, uh, which I think. Again, doesn't seem like very long, but that will have everything you need to know to say, Hey, I got this idea. I want to teach a course on depression, A [00:22:00] DHD, couples counseling, autism, whatever it is, create the whole thing. Uh, we're not gonna create the whole thing with you, but we're gonna show you each and every step how to make this slides, how to rate the course description so that by the end of that, you will know everything you need to know to take that idea and to actually make the course and be selling it. In those two hours. Um, so by the time you leave, you'll have the handouts, the tools, the checklists, um, everything You need to just do that, do it. Um, and
[00:22:33] James Marland: checklist, like what do you need to do to get it ready to submit to somebody?
[00:22:38] Leo: exactly all the standards that are, are needed. All the disclosure statements that are required, the whole nine yards. Um, so in two hours you'll learn everything you need to do, uh, for making your course happen, which if you made it through this podcast, you'd probably have at least a little bit of an interest in doing.
[00:22:56] James Marland: I would think so that's a course idea, a [00:23:00] paycheck workshop. Uh, Thursday, June 26th, 10:00 AM to 12. There was a subtitle to that. Uh. Designing and delivering con counselor continuing education trainings. So,
[00:23:13] Leo: Bingo.
[00:23:14] James Marland: yeah. And you, you have so much other stuff on your website, not just this, what, what, what, uh, what are some other resources on your website?
[00:23:22] Leo: Yes, so counselors choice award.com. Uh, you'll can go through. The main thing that we do is that we have, uh, free continuing education courses that are accredited, uh, taught by yours truly, as well as a few other, uh, providers. Um, the other things that we do is if you have your private or group practice that you would like to get distinguished and recognized for. Having good therapists and good therapy practice, we will award you if you apply, which is free to apply, uh, but we don't guarantee that you'll win. Uh, uh, the r mark of distinction, which you can then use on your website. The other is therapy [00:24:00] tools and products. So we have everything from CBT flash, like cards that people can pull to, uh, like, uh, journals.
[00:24:08] Uh, there's gratitude journals and things like that that are really great therapy tools. Even a lot of. Therapy books like Self-Help ones as well as ones that I recommend, uh, workbooks that you can use with your clients. So if you're looking for resources or you're looking to distinguish yourself or your products, um, that's where you should go.
[00:24:27] Counselors choice award.com
[00:24:29] James Marland: Great. Thanks Leo. That's, that's amazing. You do offer a lot of services and a lot of it is very ethical and, uh, like you're not trying to. Um, and I don't like this word gouge people like you're, you're really trying to help people pro provide great services for clients. It's, it's really nice resource. So thanks for being on the show today, and thanks for talking to us about the topic.
[00:24:54] Um, any, uh, any final words? I didn't prepare you [00:25:00] for this, so good luck. I'm throwing you in.
[00:25:03] Leo: my final words would be, um, if you forget everything else, you, uh, from what we talked about, get an accountability buddy. you can message me personally on Counselor's Choice Award and I can hook you up with people from our team if you don't know someone, but forget everything else and get an account bill of Buddy, because it's not as hard as it seemed, and it's a lot more fun when you do this stuff with other people.
[00:25:26] James Marland: Ah, great. That's a great ending message. All the links will be in the show notes, uh, at course creation studio.com. There'll also be a blog post about this. Uh, you'll be able to, to, uh, register for the workshop there as well. Leo, thanks for being on the show. It was a pleasure.
[00:25:43] Leo: and take care James.
[00:25:44] James Marland: All right, and, uh, now listeners, it's now time to put your mission in motion and I will hit stop somewhere.
[00:25:53] Okay.
[00:25:54]
